Discussion:
Singer 411
(too old to reply)
Sally Holmes
2004-06-20 09:39:51 UTC
Permalink
Just bought a new-to-me sewing machine from ebay. The seller was a bit
vague - it turns out it was his deceased mother-in-law's machine and neither
he nor his wife know much about it: he only realised it was a sewing machine
when he tried to move the cabinet and it felt a bit heavy! - so I was
bidding blind.

To my delight, it's a Singer 411g. (-: Yay! :-) I've wanted a 401/411 for
ages. Now here it is, in decent condition. You can see it here:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?A16314C98. It was jammed at first but it's
turning now. It has five stitch cams. But, it doesn't have a manual.

ISMACS says that the 411 is like the 401, but with chainstitch capability.
It also says that the 431 is the same machine, but with a free-arm. I've
downloaded the manual for the 431 but it doesn't say anything about
chainstitch.

Does anyone out there have a 411 with a manual? Does it really do
chainstitch? How? Does it take more than the five cams? If so, will the ones
that fit the 400 - 600 series work? There are some on ebay at the moment:
one listing indicates that they work for all the 400 series, but another
lists suitable machines by model and 411 isn't there.

What exactly is Singer lubricant? Is there a more-easily available grease
that can be used instead? I can't get to the local Singer shop until
Saturday and I'd like to have her up and sewing by then.

BTW, the prices for old sewing machines on ebay.co.uk seem really low at the
moment. Featherweights, that used to go for over £100, are going for as
little as £60. Is it because they were being bought by USians who are being
put off by the exchange rate?

Sally H
Kay Swanson
2004-06-20 17:35:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sally Holmes
Just bought a new-to-me sewing machine from ebay.
The seller was a bit vague - ....<snip>.... To my delight,
it's a Singer 411g. (-: Yay! :-) I've wanted a 401/411
for ages. Now here it is, in decent condition. You can
http://makeashorterlink.com/?A16314C98
Congratulations Sally! Unfortunately I can't make your link work. Is
it correct? I'm dying to see your new "baby"!

Regards,
Kay S.
Sally Holmes
2004-06-20 18:42:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kay Swanson
Post by Sally Holmes
Just bought a new-to-me sewing machine from ebay.
The seller was a bit vague - ....<snip>.... To my delight,
it's a Singer 411g. (-: Yay! :-) I've wanted a 401/411
for ages. Now here it is, in decent condition. You can
http://makeashorterlink.com/?A16314C98
Congratulations Sally! Unfortunately I can't make your link work. Is
it correct? I'm dying to see your new "baby"!
It's item number 8109751140 on www.ebay.co.uk , but it's a lot cleaner now
:-) The instruction manual tells you that, if the machine is not going to be
used for a while, you should brush over it with a brush saturated in machine
oil. I think the yellow-brown lines that you see are a result of the
previous owner looking after it too well! They've lifted nicely with WD-40
followed by dishwashing detergent.

The spool pins sit on some sort of rubber or cork disks that have completely
perished but it's usable as it is until I get new ones. I was very excited
to realise that it's a true two-needle, as opposed to a twin needle,
machine - that is, it takes two regular needles, side by side. All it needs
is some grease and some oil, and it'll be ready to go.

Sally H
Ann Knight
2004-06-20 17:39:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sally Holmes
What exactly is Singer lubricant?
The full name is 'Singer Motor Lubricant.' It's a grease that comes
in a small tube. You should be able to buy it at a sewing machine
repair shop. Here in the US you can also sometimes find it at
department stores--don't know about the UK.

I typed "singer 411 sewing machine manual" (without the quotes) into
Google and came up with many hits. Good luck.

--
muse9
2004-06-20 20:05:44 UTC
Permalink
I found some at JoAnns here and I imagine you could buy it online as well.

Bonnie
--
Post by Ann Knight
Post by Sally Holmes
What exactly is Singer lubricant?
The full name is 'Singer Motor Lubricant.' It's a grease that comes
in a small tube. You should be able to buy it at a sewing machine
repair shop. Here in the US you can also sometimes find it at
department stores--don't know about the UK.
I typed "singer 411 sewing machine manual" (without the quotes) into
Google and came up with many hits. Good luck.
--
Richard
2004-07-05 23:44:53 UTC
Permalink
If you go to a local motor car spares store not halfords you can buy a large
tin of oil ask for hydrolic oil 32s. It'll do the same job and last you for
years about £9 for a gallon.

Warning never put in a brother industrail machine its to thick and won't lub
the hook.
Been there do it!
Post by muse9
I found some at JoAnns here and I imagine you could buy it online as well.
Bonnie
--
Post by Ann Knight
Post by Sally Holmes
What exactly is Singer lubricant?
The full name is 'Singer Motor Lubricant.' It's a grease that comes
in a small tube. You should be able to buy it at a sewing machine
repair shop. Here in the US you can also sometimes find it at
department stores--don't know about the UK.
I typed "singer 411 sewing machine manual" (without the quotes) into
Google and came up with many hits. Good luck.
--
Malcolm Spann
2004-06-22 18:08:57 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 10:39:51 +0100, "Sally Holmes"
<***@dolmus.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>
Post by Sally Holmes
ISMACS says that the 411 is like the 401, but with chainstitch capability.
It also says that the 431 is the same machine, but with a free-arm. I've
downloaded the manual for the 431 but it doesn't say anything about
chainstitch.
Sally, I've just received *my* 411 that I bought on eBay, rounding out
my collection (401, 411 & 431) <smile>. Will have to have my repair
person look at it before I try anything on it, though. I *truely*
wish people knew how to package sewing machines for shipment! <sigh>

While I don't have a manual for the 411 (yet), the original Singer
manual I have for my 431 does indeed have a section on chainstitching
(pages 19 - 24). Apparently, all you have to do is:

1) remove the regular throat plate and bobbin
2) insert the chain stitch throat plate, and
3) thread the needle thread also through the chain stitch thread guide

I don't yet know what the difference is between the regular and chain
stitch throat plates. I'll have to see if I have one for either the
411 or the 431. I'm still trying to find a sliding plate for my 431,
which is proving to be difficult (it's a different shape than the
other 400 series, due to the free-arm nature of the bed).

Other than that, set the selectors to A and K, and the Red Lever to 3
(centered), and you're all set.
Post by Sally Holmes
Does anyone out there have a 411 with a manual? Does it really do
chainstitch? How? Does it take more than the five cams? If so, will the ones
one listing indicates that they work for all the 400 series, but another
lists suitable machines by model and 411 isn't there.
As far as I can tell, all the machines in the 400 series take the same
cams (those that take cams, that is. The 404 doesn't). I have
finally filled out my collection of all 22 (working off memory here)
cams.

<snip>
Post by Sally Holmes
Sally H
Enjoy your machine! I'll probably give my 14 year old DD the Singer
328 I bought (thinking it was something else), and let her use one of
the 400 series when she visits.

Malcolm
IMS
2004-06-22 19:48:30 UTC
Permalink
Yes there is a difference. The 411 (and probably the 431) use a special
chain stitch needle plate. It is different than the one that came with
Touch and Sew models. One way to see why this is is to compare the
bobbin case of the 401 and the 411, you will see a little 'notch' in the
upper right section on the 411 bobbin case. This notch is important for
the chainstitching function to happen. Also the 411 and 431 have
chainstitch thread guides in the upper threading path.

I have a full 411 attachment set and manual, if someone needs me to copy
the directions for chainstitching and send it to them, just let me know.
(I am not selling this set, for I too hope to find a 411 some day.) I
can also dig out the chainstitch needle plate and let you know what the
part number is. I have compared this plate to my hundred of other
Singer plates that do chainstitch and it is different.

PLEASE note, though, I won't be able to do this until after next week as
I'm busy all this week getting ready for my daughter's HS graduation and
party this weekend :-) -Irene
Post by Malcolm Spann
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 10:39:51 +0100, "Sally Holmes"
<snip>
Post by Sally Holmes
ISMACS says that the 411 is like the 401, but with chainstitch capability.
It also says that the 431 is the same machine, but with a free-arm. I've
downloaded the manual for the 431 but it doesn't say anything about
chainstitch.
Sally, I've just received *my* 411 that I bought on eBay, rounding out
my collection (401, 411 & 431) <smile>. Will have to have my repair
person look at it before I try anything on it, though. I *truely*
wish people knew how to package sewing machines for shipment! <sigh>
While I don't have a manual for the 411 (yet), the original Singer
manual I have for my 431 does indeed have a section on chainstitching
1) remove the regular throat plate and bobbin
2) insert the chain stitch throat plate, and
3) thread the needle thread also through the chain stitch thread guide
I don't yet know what the difference is between the regular and chain
stitch throat plates. I'll have to see if I have one for either the
411 or the 431. I'm still trying to find a sliding plate for my 431,
which is proving to be difficult (it's a different shape than the
other 400 series, due to the free-arm nature of the bed).
Other than that, set the selectors to A and K, and the Red Lever to 3
(centered), and you're all set.
Post by Sally Holmes
Does anyone out there have a 411 with a manual? Does it really do
chainstitch? How? Does it take more than the five cams? If so, will the ones
one listing indicates that they work for all the 400 series, but another
lists suitable machines by model and 411 isn't there.
As far as I can tell, all the machines in the 400 series take the same
cams (those that take cams, that is. The 404 doesn't). I have
finally filled out my collection of all 22 (working off memory here)
cams.
<snip>
Post by Sally Holmes
Sally H
Enjoy your machine! I'll probably give my 14 year old DD the Singer
328 I bought (thinking it was something else), and let her use one of
the 400 series when she visits.
Malcolm
Malcolm Spann
2004-06-23 15:42:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by IMS
Yes there is a difference. The 411 (and probably the 431) use a special
chain stitch needle plate. It is different than the one that came with
Touch and Sew models. One way to see why this is is to compare the
bobbin case of the 401 and the 411, you will see a little 'notch' in the
upper right section on the 411 bobbin case. This notch is important for
the chainstitching function to happen. Also the 411 and 431 have
chainstitch thread guides in the upper threading path.
Ok, I've just checked out both my 411 and 431 machines. While the 431
is part of the same 'family' of machines, it does use a completely
different needle plate assembly than the 401/403/404/411 series. Per
ISMACS, "(the 431) Has later throat plate like the Singer Touch n' Sew
series." Oh well ...

In my collection of parts and accessories, I have a number of
different needle plates that fit the 401/403/404/411 series. These
include:

# 163727 Straight Stitch
# 172201 Straight Stitch (per Singer, the stock 401 plate)
# 174529 Straight Stitch

# 172200 Zig Zag (per Singer, the stock 401 plate)
# 503586 Zig Zag

# 21913 I believe for the Chain Stitch on the 411
(this has the pivoting bar beneath the plate)


For the 431 series (which is supposed to use the same plates as the
Touch n' Sew series), I have the following plates:

# 381244 Straight Stitch
# 381245 Straight Stitch

# 381247 Zig Zag
# 507053 Zig Zag

I guess I still have to find a chain stitch plate for my 431.
Fortunately, I bought the machine specifically to use the free-arm
feature, and I don't intend to do much chain stitching on cuffs, etc.
<g>

If anyone has a good list/cross reference of the different parts and
accessories that fit these machines, I'd appreciate a copy.
Post by IMS
I have a full 411 attachment set and manual, if someone needs me to copy
the directions for chainstitching and send it to them, just let me know.
(I am not selling this set, for I too hope to find a 411 some day.) I
can also dig out the chainstitch needle plate and let you know what the
part number is. I have compared this plate to my hundred of other
Singer plates that do chainstitch and it is different.
Irene, I'd *love* a copy. Let me know if you want an e-mail address,
or snail-mail address.
Post by IMS
PLEASE note, though, I won't be able to do this until after next week as
I'm busy all this week getting ready for my daughter's HS graduation and
party this weekend :-) -Irene
I understand completely! Fortunately, my DD and DS had their HS
finals a week and a half ago.

<snip>
Post by IMS
Post by Malcolm Spann
Post by Sally Holmes
ISMACS says that the 411 is like the 401, but with chainstitch capability.
It also says that the 431 is the same machine, but with a free-arm. I've
downloaded the manual for the 431 but it doesn't say anything about
chainstitch.
While I don't have a manual for the 411 (yet), the original Singer
manual I have for my 431 does indeed have a section on chainstitching
One more note here: I purchased a copy of the 431 manual from Singer.
As Sally mentioned, that manual does *not* have any info on the chain
stitch function. However, the small 'original' manual I bought off of
eBay *does*! So, I guess Singer printed several different versions of
the manual, but are only now selling/downloading the version w/o the
chain stitch info. Go figure.

Malcolm
IMS
2004-06-23 16:22:21 UTC
Permalink
I went ahead and dug out my 411 attachment set. The chainstitch
plate is stampped 503599. The 411 chainstitch plate has a moveable
piece underneath that pivots inward; this part catches the thread and
produces the lower part of the sitch. My Touch and Sew chainstitch
plates also have this moveable part but it's shapped differently than
it is on the 411's plate.

In my Touch and Sew 630 attachment box, the chainstitch plate (which is
the same shape as the 411's plate) is stamped 21913. It is not the same
as the plate that came in my 411 attachment set, the 503599;the
pivoting piece underneath is a different shape.

Hope this helps.

-Irene
Post by Malcolm Spann
Post by IMS
Yes there is a difference. The 411 (and probably the 431) use a special
chain stitch needle plate. It is different than the one that came with
Touch and Sew models. One way to see why this is is to compare the
bobbin case of the 401 and the 411, you will see a little 'notch' in the
upper right section on the 411 bobbin case. This notch is important for
the chainstitching function to happen. Also the 411 and 431 have
chainstitch thread guides in the upper threading path.
Ok, I've just checked out both my 411 and 431 machines. While the 431
is part of the same 'family' of machines, it does use a completely
different needle plate assembly than the 401/403/404/411 series. Per
ISMACS, "(the 431) Has later throat plate like the Singer Touch n' Sew
series." Oh well ...
In my collection of parts and accessories, I have a number of
different needle plates that fit the 401/403/404/411 series. These
# 163727 Straight Stitch
# 172201 Straight Stitch (per Singer, the stock 401 plate)
# 174529 Straight Stitch
# 172200 Zig Zag (per Singer, the stock 401 plate)
# 503586 Zig Zag
# 21913 I believe for the Chain Stitch on the 411
(this has the pivoting bar beneath the plate)
For the 431 series (which is supposed to use the same plates as the
# 381244 Straight Stitch
# 381245 Straight Stitch
# 381247 Zig Zag
# 507053 Zig Zag
I guess I still have to find a chain stitch plate for my 431.
Fortunately, I bought the machine specifically to use the free-arm
feature, and I don't intend to do much chain stitching on cuffs, etc.
<g>
If anyone has a good list/cross reference of the different parts and
accessories that fit these machines, I'd appreciate a copy.
Post by IMS
I have a full 411 attachment set and manual, if someone needs me to copy
the directions for chainstitching and send it to them, just let me know.
(I am not selling this set, for I too hope to find a 411 some day.) I
can also dig out the chainstitch needle plate and let you know what the
part number is. I have compared this plate to my hundred of other
Singer plates that do chainstitch and it is different.
Irene, I'd *love* a copy. Let me know if you want an e-mail address,
or snail-mail address.
Post by IMS
PLEASE note, though, I won't be able to do this until after next week as
I'm busy all this week getting ready for my daughter's HS graduation and
party this weekend :-) -Irene
I understand completely! Fortunately, my DD and DS had their HS
finals a week and a half ago.
<snip>
Post by IMS
Post by Malcolm Spann
Post by Sally Holmes
ISMACS says that the 411 is like the 401, but with chainstitch capability.
It also says that the 431 is the same machine, but with a free-arm. I've
downloaded the manual for the 431 but it doesn't say anything about
chainstitch.
While I don't have a manual for the 411 (yet), the original Singer
manual I have for my 431 does indeed have a section on chainstitching
One more note here: I purchased a copy of the 431 manual from Singer.
As Sally mentioned, that manual does *not* have any info on the chain
stitch function. However, the small 'original' manual I bought off of
eBay *does*! So, I guess Singer printed several different versions of
the manual, but are only now selling/downloading the version w/o the
chain stitch info. Go figure.
Malcolm
Malcolm Spann
2004-08-13 04:40:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by IMS
I have a full 411 attachment set and manual, if someone needs me to copy
the directions for chainstitching and send it to them, just let me know.
(I am not selling this set, for I too hope to find a 411 some day.) I
can also dig out the chainstitch needle plate and let you know what the
part number is. I have compared this plate to my hundred of other
Singer plates that do chainstitch and it is different.
PLEASE note, though, I won't be able to do this until after next week as
I'm busy all this week getting ready for my daughter's HS graduation and
party this weekend :-) -Irene
Irene,

I would *love* a copy of the manual .. or even just the chainstitch
instructions .. or even just the accessory part #'s.

Thanks!
Malcolm

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